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In the word of What About Bob: “Ow, Ow…I think you can help me!” Keep pushing us, don’t let us off the hook, Anne.

And can I say how much I love the fact you have a category called “Hmmmm?”

Aren’t we all really hypocritical worshipers? We talk about “living the life”. Heck, we sing about it!

And yet, I see the guy from the mission down the street walking in the rain and do I stop to pick him up? No, he might stink up my car.

What about the old lady who can barely walk hobbling to the Dollar General? Good luck, I’ve got to get home to check email and *work on that new song arrangement for this Sunday’s worship*.

Wow, thanks for rockin’ up my world this Thursday. Blech. I make myself sick sometimes.

dang

just had this conversation with the band at mosaic. we read romans 12:1 before practice. funny it doesn’t mention anything about singing in regards to worship. the amos verse you quoted … definitely read that with kim on our way to passion a few years ago … ha. it was pretty funny. little bit of a slap in the face, but humorous nonetheless.

since moving to l.a. i have battled the battle of figuring out what worship means to me since we don’t sing chris tomlin, david crowder and hillsong united at mosaic. i’ve been forced to come to grips with the fact that i worship worship (as defined by music and the sunday service). sad.

we actually had a girl tell our artisans director that she sits in her car and listens to “real” worship music before she comes and hears erwin talk because she doesn’t feel our songs are anointed. has it really come to this? this whole discussion about worship is the exact reason my skin crawls when i hear the word christian … ha… and i’ve been the epitome of it for years.

“offer my life as a living sacrifice, which is the spiritual way to worship.” (romans 12)

so glad God is having this conversation with both of us this week :)

anne, i believe this is one of your strongest posts on this blog! :) well said…

in line with your challenge:

- why is the word “just” so common in prayer?
- don’t we often soften God’s intent for holiness?
- do we TRULY desire to be set apart for the Lord (for those who are Christ followers)? (read Dallas Willard’s treatment of this or read about John Wesley’s early “small groups”)

i suspect many mean that they look forward to corporate worship when they make the statements you mentioned. but, i also believe many of us have lost our way when to comes to how we (Christ followers) are to be set apart for the Lord (”hrm” in Hebrew).

love this topic…

Anne, thanks for this. I have struggled with this reality for years, in the sense that once I finally got a glimpse that worship was more than just music on Sun. morn, I’ve tried to get others to see if from that perspective as well.

It is really the whole reason I started blogging in the first place, to try and share what worship is really all about.

Here’s one thing I do know, and it’s something we’re trying to constantly remind ourselves as a staff. Our responsibility as leaders is to shepherd people into an authentic relationship with Christ, not just one that looks good on the outside, but that is fully active and realized on the inside. Part of this is leading people to be spiritually disciplined. However, it is not our job to make sure they are actually working out their salvation, that’s between them and their Lord. We are called to be servant-leader-encouragers.

This applies to our worship as well. It may be that we sometimes are leading people who resemble Amos 5, but we need to stand up like Moses did and be strong leaders, leaders by service, submission and example. Those who will follow will follow.

This is good stuff, Anne. There is an interesting thought in Jeremiah 7 along these lines:

This is the word that came to Jeremiah from the LORD : “Stand at the gate of the LORD’s house and there proclaim this message:” ‘Hear the word of the LORD, all you people of Judah who come through these gates to worship the LORD. This is what the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says: Reform your ways and your actions, and I will let you live in this place. Do not trust in deceptive words and say, “This is the temple of the LORD, the temple of the LORD, the temple of the LORD!” If you really change your ways and your actions and deal with each other justly, if you do not oppress the alien, the fatherless or the widow and do not shed innocent blood in this place, and if you do not follow other gods to your own harm, then I will let you live in this place, in the land I gave your forefathers for ever and ever. But look, you are trusting in deceptive words that are worthless.

Apparently, “This is the temple of the LORD, the temple of the LORD, the temple of the LORD” was a slogan that people used at the time. “We’ve got our temple, so we’re okay.” Like any number of worship/church slogans we’ve all heard and probably sung.

What am I prepared to do?

My husband and I have been reevaluating what the role of “worship” looks like in our lives.

Empty music and words have no place in our lives (music and words do, but it’s a matter of looking into our hearts in order to define “empty”).

We talk about this. We challenge each other on it. We challenge others on it.

Do I over analyze it? Maybe. But I think it’s worth it.

A new song by Jon Foreman deals with this exact thing. Check out the video

You should read my Worship Mythbusters series at the RKWL where I say that “worship is a lifestyle” is a MYTH. Meaning, I think we are not valuing the joyful communal experience of worship and think everything else is worship. If worship is everything, the worship is NOTHING. So, the act and spiritual discipline of coming to offer your life is good–and a joy. I think some are like David’s wife and feel angry at people feeling free and joyful in expressing worship. Worship naked.

Sure, there are a lot of sinful people in the pews like you and me and some perhaps not getting it. But, really I think there are also a lot of people simply not understanding the woman who anointed Jesus’ feet…they could have used the perfume to feed the poor, but Jesus also demands our devotion and affection. Why is that a bad thing? Why is enjoying being with God together a bad thing? I fear legalism is the why.

It’s not an either/or, but a both/and deal. Worship is a communal response of God’s people gathered to celebrate His goodness and mercy. But unless it is the culmination of a bunch of life lives in the awareness that all of life is worship, our Sunday expressions fall short.

We worship corporately out of what we worship individually.

I am guilty of this view. This will take sometime for me to process and see how it works out in every aspect of my life. But I guess that is what it is all about. Allowing God to touch every part of my life, everyday and in everyway.

Anne,
I think if the music is connected to the life lived in awareness of how good God is, then I think it can have something to do with the music.

I also agree that many sundays in many places what happens is that we “sing prom songs to Jesus” as Mark Driscoll says, and nothing much more happens.

Worship is more than just the music, but it does not preclude music from being part of the worship. Sometimes our songs are just songs and sometimes they are worship. It’s the condition of the heart that makes the difference.

Well that’s my story and I’m stickin’ to it :)

Great post Anne!

I have started to think of worship this way. It literally means worth-ship, or giving something its true worth. When all we do is sing songs during church services then we’re saying God is only worth an hour of our time each week.

Obviously God is worth more than we could ever describe, but I think He wants us to tell Him how much He’s worth to us. I’ll confess that I often don’t do a very good job with this. But sadly, I sure do give worth to a lot of other things.

When I say, “I cannot wait to go to worship this weekend” what I mean to say is “I cannot wait to go to corporate worship this weekend.”

Some of the points made in the comment have struck a chord with me.

I am reminded of what my hometown pastor said once, “What if we started taking the words we read in the Bible and the words we sing in church literally?”

Take a song like “Made Me Glad” by Hillsong.

If we sung that, would we mean every single word?

Of course worship leaders/pastors will get defensive. This challenges the thing that pays your bills and feeds your need for affirmation in your calling.

What about people who can’t hear or are mute? Guess they will never truly experience “Worship” biblically.

That’s sad.

Anne,

I’m with you on this for the most part…music does not equal worship, but I think it can be a part.

But what do you do with this (also written by Paul)?

Colossians 3:15.Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful.
16.Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God.
17.And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

i love what matthew henry’s commentary says about that passage. it sums up what we are saying here beautifully. emphasis mine.

We must not only do no hurt to any, but do what good we can to all. Those who are the elect of God, holy and beloved, ought to be lowly and compassionate towards all. While in this world, where there is so much corruption in our hearts, quarrels will sometimes arise. But it is our duty to forgive one another, imitating the forgiveness through which we are saved. Let the peace of God rule in your hearts; it is of his working in all who are his. Thanksgiving to God, helps to make us agreeable to all men. The gospel is the word of Christ. Many have the word, but it dwells in them poorly; it has no power over them. The soul prospers, when we are full of the Scriptures and of the grace of Christ. But when we sing psalms, we must be affected with what we sing. Whatever we are employed about, let us do every thing in the name of the Lord Jesus, and in believing dependence on him. Those who do all in Christ’s name, will never want matter of thanksgiving to God, even the Father.

Anne,

Absolutely. The dead guy is correct.

“how often do we say “god, take all of me?” but it’s just because we feel like we need to say that?

empty worship. god sees it.”

i thought anne’s ? was rather easy to spot - silly me.

it seems if anyone mentions worship the music crazies come out - for and against

anne - next time use notes, scales, and intervals, instead of letters, that’ll get ‘em.

(then, tell them it’s all math baby, it’s all math)

so, as i pontificate (and not do anything else)the depth of this discussion……………

It’s so easy to get caught up in the “song” or the “music” or the “lights”, and forget about the worship.

I’ve been there, we all have. You’re worshiping God, and then it hits you, you realize you’re focusing on sounding good, or singing harmony. You’re focusing on singing and you somehow forget why you’re singing.

Then we leave the church where we just had our “worship” and we forget to worship Him in our conversation, we forget to worship him in our car.

I suck at this. Truly. I aim for much greater things out of myself. I desire and want to truly worship God in my every minute walk.

This was a great topic Anne. Thanks for bringing it up. Oh and the song by Jon Foreman, great stuff. So glad Switchfoot dropped their label so that they could truly “worship” again.

Micah tells us to DO JUSTICE, LOVE MERCY, WALK HUMBLY WITH GOD. Jesus tells us to LOVE GOD AND YOUR NEIGHBOR…

I wonder…

If I am loving God with all I am (my gifts, abilities, talents, time, etc.) is that not worship? Isn’t worship about telling/showing God how worthy He is? What better way to do that than properly use what He has granted?

If I am loving my neighbor and seeking justice in their behalf, is that not reflecting the image of God? Isn’t a great way to tell or show someone their worth in your life to reflect them to the world around you?

Before the individual/corporate thing gets going here, let me say these thoughts are both/and. In worshipping God fully, I will seek to do these things myself, and as a church we will seek to do these things as community.

Just some muddled stirrings in me.

I’m with you on the sick feeling, but maybe for a slightly different reason. I find it almost impossible to worship in places where the service is steeped in production values and expensive equipment. Not only is it a distraction; I spend the whole time thinking about how many children could’ve been fed with the cost of that HD projector or pretty banner or high-tech sound system.

Thanks Anne. My husband are new worship leaders at our church that is being launched. That is powerful and what I needed to hear today. Are there any good books out there on this topic?? I bought one today by Rori Nolan…I hope it’s a good one…no clue.

Worship is our offerings…a living sacrifice. Are we willing to lay it all down in full surrender. Worship is a daily..minute by minute action. Full surrender and worship go hand in hand.

I completely here you on this one. There are too many Christians where that Sunday thing is actually their only means of “worship.”

But I guess the problem is what do those of us who do get that worship is life actually call what happens on Sunday?

It’s just too hard to say, “Sunday’s corporate worship, which I know is totally just one part of our life of worship, brought me back a little bit to the throne of God. It inspired me to keep it up the rest of the week as I live out my total life of worship.”

Much easier to say “It was off the hook!”

:)

People are asking for literature on this subject. This is a great read: Music Through the Eyes of Faith - Harold Best

I’m also posting my theology of Worship on Wednesday at http://www.dannypoyner.com. Fits right in with this.

Couldn’t agree more.

My brain’s too fried to add a thoughtful comment, other than I agree. I think that’s why I’m so passionate about the “missional” side of church. We’ve got to be outside of the walls of the church, living life, following Jesus, serving others, diving into messy relationships. There’s worship there that goes far beyond an emotional high.

I love worship music, but I’m realizing that if people see worship as the good feelings they get when they sing songs they like, we’ve actually done them a disservice.

so many thoughts… so many, many thoughts…

i’m writing as a bivocational worship leader (maria, i don’t make a penny from leading worship) who volunteers as the leader of a church plant’s worship team while working full-time for a secular non-profit serving people living with hiv/aids. i absolutely believe that worship is ultimately about a heart that adores God and is surrendered to God. (so yes, it’s absolutely an act of worship to care about people God cares about. and yes, a mouth that sings a lot but isn’t connected to a heart that breaks for that which breaks for that which breaks God’s heart may not be truly worshiping God.) i’ll also say that it makes me cringe when someone is talking about a ‘worship style’ when they really mean musical genre. or when someone tells me after a gathering, ‘you did such a good job,’ as if i were a kid performing for a recital.

i however believe that ‘vertical disciplines’ of worship are important, especially when folks are gathered together. that can look like a lot of things - prayer, ‘experiential worship’/’sacred spaces’, yep, music. (a church in my town that’s very effective in reaching the unchurched calls singing songs during gatherings ‘prayer set to music’. i love that.) but those kinds of disciplines are really important, not just as something that pleases God, but as something that draws our hearts toward God. (and i concur with rich’s comment on the history/tradition/Biblicalness-if that’s a word-of using music to honor God.)

anne-girl (girl that i love and adore, you know that, right?), you said, ‘the heart comes before the words. before the song. and well before the weekend service.’ that’s not always true. there have been many, many times where my heart has forgotten what my theology says is true. (like a time when really struggling with some relational brokenness, and i couldn’t get through practicing the song ‘enough’ without sobbing.) and there have been many, many times where singing or listening to a song has been what helped my heart and head connect again. there have also been times when a song has helped remind me of why i engage in more ‘practical’ acts of worship. (like in brenton brown’s ‘everlasting God’: ‘You’re the Defender of the weak / You comfort those in need…’) that’s not to say that music is the be-all end-all for helping people to engage. other forms of disciplines/communal activities accomplish the same ends. the point is that there’s value in tools that help people connect on a heart (and yes, even emotional) level with God.

so i guess to sum up, music does not = worship. and music used for the purpose of worship does not = crap. ;)

Wow…this discussion is “off the hook.”

heart that breaks heart that breaks heart that breaks….

sorry for the typo. :) hope you caught the heart behind that. :) <3

oops… hit enter too soon.

… believe it or not, when i get my tattoo in may with you - as anti-levitical as that might be - i will surely be worshiping even then because this tattoo represents a new relationship with my Creator. a turn in a relationship that i never want to forgot to revert from. a daily reminder to die to myself and follow Him. worship Him. with everything i am.

You are right on. I think we blow right past this. The scripture from Matthew that makes me cringe is “These people honor me with their lips but their hearts are far from me.” Yikes! Thanks for sharing this.

My apologies on the last bit of my post. I forgot to delete the last few sentences….whoops!:)

But you know, I’ve got to add that I think churches are partly to blame for this. They produce worship services that are a complete “show”, but then they say, “this isn’t worship! worship is in the heart!” It’s distracting and confusing for people. Give me an acoustic guitar and a hymnal, any day.

Anne,

During the years that I was ill, I was homebound mostly. Therefore, I could not go to a physical church building on Sundays or any other day/night of the week. It was unbelievable to me how many individuals told me that since I couldn’t be in the building - I was not able to worship. God used those years to really speak to me about worship. What real worship is…. Funny enough? Most of those moments came when I couldn’t move from the neck down and was totally dependent. Now, being in the best physical health ever in my life - He still is speaking to me about worship. How we are to live the moments of life worshipping Him with all of our being. It has nothing really to do with a building. It happens with breathing in/out and taking in His fragrance and pouring it back out.

Yep, you know me. All I am out to do is get heated comments and sell books. I am so busted.

eh. Haiti, shmaiti. I just want to fill up my jeep wrangler today, grab a bottled water and four-wheel myself all through the inner-city potholes (no need to go off-road)! Love gasoline, love water… really, REALLY LOVE the FREE AIR! Haiti is on the poor side of the world from us, right? Silly rabbit. Closing the comments on a post doesn’t stop the “inner wolf”.