FlowerDust.net

Wow, big subject!

First off, as tithers and givers, we have to trust the church with the money we give. It is their responsibility to be a good steward of that money and to spend it wisely. It’s not up to us to worry about that, God will hold them to account for it. Of course, if you are concerned, then get involved in the management of the church and check out the accounts for yourself.

Secondly, in my experience, as soon as I proved myself faithful to God in tithing, he started to help me get a handle on my finances and the gradual process of getting out of debt began. It took a while and a made a couple of huge blunders along the way (refinancing etc) but God led me through it. In fact, it was only when we answered the call to serve overseas, still in debt, living by faith with no salary or guaranteed income, it was only then that God allowed us to pay off the last of our loans and we started to save money for the first time in our lives.

It’s very simple in my life: I tithe, God provides.

I think we need to do both, give and get out of debt but that does require a lot of sacrifice. I’ve had to sell stuff, work extra jobs, cut things back and pray, pray pray for God’s extra provision. Once i got out of debt i could slowly begin to bring some tings back into my life but i needed to be careful so that i didn’t get into the same mess again. I would go to someone who has a lot of wisdom in the area of finances and open my life up to them. See if they can spot anything that needs adjustment.

I’m a big fan of doing first things first. Our Tithe is a first-fruit. With that being said it’s one of those things I don’t view as flexible when it comes to our budgeting out of obedience.

If I were to stop tithing to pay down debts it seems to me that I’d be dishonoring God by paying for things that dishonor God (i.e. debt, mismanagement of finances in the past, etc.)

Also when we consider that we’re talking about 10% we really have to consider what we’re doing with the other 90%. As a Pastor I’ve never met a couple that would have made a drastic dent in their finances by removing the Tithe anyway. Most people were able to remove cable TV, sell a car or downsize their rent/mortgage. By making those adjustments they were able to continue to honor God with the tithe while getting themselves out of debt.

As to the issue of making judgments about the church and how it spends the money I really would have to take a step back. This is obviously a church that is filling a void in your life or you wouldn’t be going there. I’d say that if the fact that they are providing a high-quality atmosphere for you and your family shouldn’t be a reason to withhold. If you have a conviction that the money is being spent poorly, go to an average run-down church and tithe there. It seems strange that we’d join a congregation because of what we gain but criticize that they do things too nicely.

I appreciate the transparency of your question as I’m positive many people share similar feelings. At the end of the day however remember that tithing is a discipline of obedience to God, not something we do simply to pool money at a church. Bringing that tithe has a much larger spiritual principle at play that doesn’t show up in your checkbook or at a church budget meeting.

Wow! God keeps giving me opportunities to give my opinions about this topic. Seriously…it seems that I am faced with this question time and time again and, lo and behold, if I don’t have a personal testimony to go along with it.

Several years ago, my husband and I were continuously being faced with the “to tithe or not to tithe” issue. We felt God clearly was telling us to do so but, my husband, being a CPA couldn’t make sense of it. We had bills to pay and we weren’t doing all that well with 100 percent of his income, how could we make it on 90 percent?. Finally, after much debate and struggle, we decided we just were not going to sleep well again until we did it. So, reluctantly, we did (apparently, we forgot about that “cheerful giver” thing). It began to feel really good and we were getting by. Then….the income tax refund check came. Hmmm. Do we tithe on that or not? Well…we decided that the logical thing was that we had already tithed on the income so we didn’t need to tithe on the return. We’d just pass that opportunity on by and keep that all to ourselves. I’m not kidding you at all when I say that the tax check for $1,569.00 came on, say, a Tuesday. We didn’t tithe on it on Wednesday and we didn’t tithe on it on Sunday. Whew….we’re thinking we’ve gotten by scott free. Well…on Monday morning, my son (whose bedroom was upstairs) woke and when I went to get him, it was really hot up there. I checked the thermostat…nothing. My husband found a random service to come and look at the upstairs unit that afternoon. The guy came in, went on his way searching out the problem then returned to me with his invoice. The bill was for $156.90 - I am NOT kidding. But it gets better than that, he handed me his business card to keep for future reference. I layed it on the kitchen counter and, about an hour after he left, needed to jot a number down. When I turned the card over, stamped on the back it said, “If you meet me and forget me, you’ve lost nothing. If you meet Jesus and forget him, you’ve lost everything.”

I believe in tithing. I believe that it is an act of obedience and when we are faithful to Him, He blesses us for that.

Lastly, we have some dear friends who basically bankrupt but who never ceased tithing. Oftentimes, someone would anonymously leave an envelope at church for them or they’d receive an envelope on their door with WalMart gift cards enclosed, etc. Someone once took their car, put new tires on, filled it up with gas and returned it to their driveway. That is the body of Christ at work.

i was gonna write a sweet response but Clayton Bell already wrote exactly what i was gonna write. Good stuff! We’re doing exactly that and it is working.

I see it like this.
We should tithe because it is God’s, once we give the tithe it is the church’s responsibility to be good stewards of the money, but ours to be obedient in giving it.

Yes the Bible says to test the Lord, but that was only after he rips the Israelites for not being faithful and for robbing him. I believe if we are only giving to see what we get in return our hearts are not in obedience to God, but focused on ourselves and what we can get for our actions.

Personally, I side with continuing to tithe, because our debt has nothing to do with being obedient to God. Many times we get ourselves into debt and that has nothing to do with our ability to tithe. We can always cut financially in areas like Cell phone bills, cable bills, etc. I think it boils down to where our priorities are.

Hmmmm….I know this is going to sound condescending, but it’s to myself as much as anyone.

The church has big screen TVs so we need to take care of our personal finances first? It never ceases to amaze me how we as Christians will do everything “Christian”, but as soon as it comes to money we become card carrying Athiests.

Wal-Mart has big screen TVs. The bank has big screen TVs. But we’re ok with them as long as we can buy cheap stuff and keep the ATM fees low.

But a church only has that small mission of doing God’s work on earth.

A friend of mine is a music producer that works with people all over the country. It’s common for rock bands to live out of their van, and survive on peanut butter (not sandwiches, just the substance). But when they show up to record, they spend all they can on the music…because that’s their life.

But the Christian artists commonly drive up in $40k SUV’s. They record demos in $350k houses. Then they want to spend chump change on recording Christian music.

It’s always the same. “well…this is a ministry….” As if ministry is a hobby or some sort of charity.

Why are we asking these questions when the Bible is so clear?

“sell your stuff and follow me”
But it seems more people are serious about selling their stuff to promote party-all-night-and-rock-all-day.

“wherever your money is, that’s where your heart is”
But we freak out when the church spends 1000 bucks on a nicer TV than we have.

“you cheated God by selling that land and only giving me part of the proceeds”
No wait, shouldn’t we take care of ourselves first?

“God created all we have”
But we think we’re keeping 90% of our stuff.

“Store up treasures in Heaven”
I’m not going to tithe until I’ve paid off my house.

Lets get serious here. Did God not create the universe? Do we not have a huge tendency to love the things of the world? Does He not provide EVERYTHING that we have?

Why are we piddling around over a measly 10 percent?

Again, I’m preaching to myself more than anyone…because this is a big issue for me.

But money is owning all of us in this society…even if we have no debt. We’re supposed to belong to the One who saved us. Questions like this indicate we’ve lost before we started.

I’m wondering if the bigger question is, “What is that church’s responsibility to that family?”. The way I recall the account of the early church was that everyone gave so that there was no one in their midst in need.

Hi. I am the anonymous person who asked the question. And I do sincerely appreciate all your thoughtful responses.

You are also making a ton of assumptions about me and my family, so allow me to clarify some things.

1-We literally don’t have anything extra. We don’t have cable. Or internet. Or even a home phone. We have the cheapest wireless phone plans. We rent and have a fair priced house. For all of our marriage at any given time, both my wife and myself have worked at least 2 jobs. Right now I only have one but she has two. We don’t have TiVo. My cell phone is several years old. We frequently buy generic groceries. We have the minimum amounts of insurance we can afford. We don’t eat out. It has probably been a year or so since we have even seen a movie in a theatre. We don’t make a lot of money. And we would sell our cars if we weren’t upside down in them.

There have literally been days when we will skip meals or eat PB&J sandwhiches because we can’t afford to get groceries until pay day.

Several people in our church “community” know of our financial situation. One family has helped us a bit but while we wonder how we are going to pay our electric bill we get to see how other families in our “community” are getting their next pretty car, TVs, private schools, going out to eat, whatever…while they know we can’t even afford to buy anything extra to bring to our “community” meal.

I am wondering exactly the thing that Seaton commented above.

If this is the way “church” is “done” you can have it.

Hi, I’m dumbfounded to read all this comments about tithing. It’s such an old covenant concept and has no place in a Christian’s life. After the cross, the law was no longer in place. If you want to tithe, you should also be sacrificing animals! :-)

Please, folks, do a bible study on your own and don’t just believe what your pastor is teaching you. A simple google search will turn up dozens of web pages to point you to the truth in the Word.

You can start here:
http://www.nomoretithing.org/
or

here:
http://tekoapublishing.com/books/tithing/index.html

I’m all for supporting the local church, but not via tithing which puts one back under the law.

Thanks for letting me share an opposing viewpoint.

Dear anonymous,

I really want to encourage you to put your hope and trust in God. My wife and I were in the same situation you are in for the first eight years of our marriage. We lived in cheap accommodation, drove an old car, shopped in the budget grocery stores, often couldn’t pay our bills, and the overdraft seemed to keep increasing. But we were confident that we were in the jobs that God wanted us to be in and we tithed “religiously” through it all and gave over and above that 10% minimum as often as we felt God prompting us too, even though we couldn’t “afford” to. The truth was, for us in Kingdom terms, we couldn’t afford not to give. For us, obedience was more important than the overdraft and loan repayments. It was really really tough and we had several arguments over financial issues through those years.

But God.

God is faithful, and as we tithed he gradually provided a way out for us. Our jobs didn’t improve, a child came along to create an added financial burden, but we did have peace in our lives at the fundamental level.

God will provide if you trust him at that fundamental level, and if you trust his kingdom economic system to overcome the world’s economic system. I still cannot believe how, when we were living from (very modest) donations as overseas workers, our debts were paid off and we started to save money. The bank statements literally did not match reality. He will look after you.

Try not to look at what others have and compare yourselves, fix your eyes on him instead. Guard your hearts against jealousy or even the faintest hint of resentment. God will take care of you as you are obedient to him and put him first. Pray, fast, tithe, give. Love him, love each other and love others more than yourselves. I know it sounds trite, but that is how the kingdom works. You are loved and supported and prayed for by new friends from all over the world through this blog - that’s pretty cool!

perhaps tithing IS being responsible with money. it’s important to realize that all 100% is God’s, not just 10%.

I don’t have a lot to add other than to say this is really causing me to delve into what I believe about tithing and how we as leaders teach application.

It seems to me that the church is often guilty of pushing people into places where they just are not ready to go.

Does a baby know how to handle finances? Does it know what a checkbook is or even what responsible finances look like? And yet many churches (including ours) challenge people who are quite possibly brand spanking new babies to immediately be obedient with their money - when they may not even know the first thing about managing it. Money is a very spiritual thing - that’s why I think it’s covered so thoroughly in the Bible.

Maybe, just maybe we are going about things the wrong way. Maybe our first goal should be getting people healthy, giving them real life tools, and help in times of need. Then watch as God grows them, as the Holy Spirit convicts them, and they being to take steps of obedience.

I don’t know - it’s just a thought. (I guess I had more to add than I originally thought).

Nice question Anne & anon.
I’ve given the advice many times to work on your debt and give to God as best you can. In other words, If you can give 10%, give that. If you can only give 1%, then give that. If 0%, well you get the picture. The main thing is to get your finances in order (Dave Ramsey is 1 of many great resources out there) and give to God as best you can. Work on your debt and then give when you are able. I’ve seen many families work on their debt and then work their way towards 10%. Hope that helps.

I’m gonna have to back up Esther on this one.

We are not commanded to tithe. Really. Seriously.

We’re no more commanded to tithe than we are commanded to refrain from shaving our sideburns or stoning adulterers.

10% is OT law . . . and really had to do with a lot more than just paychecks.

So, to Anonymous: Get out of debt. Ask Jesus what he wants you to give and to whom. He’ll tell you. Seriously. He’s alive. Just make sure you’re listening. Being a disciple of Jesus is so much more organic and life-giving than following empty rules.

I’d love to talk to you some more about life, maybe in a more personal platform. Shoot me an email if you get a chance.

Esther is the only one (and Ryan agreed and so do I) that accurately calls out that 10% tithing is an Old Testament system. And since we are no longer under the OT Law we are not required to follow it anymore.

When you do as Esther suggests and study scripture you will see that under the Old Testament system, tithing was good news to the poor. However, in our day, mandatory tithing imposed in an unbiblical manner by local churches equals oppression to the poor.

While tithing IS biblical, it is NOT Christian. The tithe belongs to ancient Israel. It was basically their income tax. Never do you find first-century Christians tithing in the New Testament.

The word tithe simply means the tenth part. The Lord required three types of tithes for Israel as part of their tax system.

1. Of the produce of the land to support the Levites who had no inheritance in Canaan. (Lev. 27:30-33; Numbers 18:21-31)

2. Of the produce of the land to sponsor religious festivals in Jerusalem. (If the produce was too burdensome for a family to carry to Jerusalem, they could convert their produce into money). (Det. 14:22-27)

3. Of the product of the land collected every third year for the local Levites, orphans, strangers, and widows. (Det. 14:28-29, 26:12-13)

This was the biblical tithe. Do the math and you will see that God commanded Israel to give 23.3% of their income every year. Not 10%! (20 percent yearly and 10 percent every three years equals 23.3 percent per year). Its funny how the modern day church has distorted this old law and made another man made law to govern their cash flow in the church.

Any Christian should follow the New Testament guidelines to giving as taught in 2 Corinthians 8:1-4 and 9:6-7. Where you “sow’ is between you and God.

I totally feel you on this one - we’ve been there more times than I’d like to admit! We had to cut back on things that weren’t as important (cable, internet, eating out, starbucks, etc)… but I think the best thing we did was go to the “envelope system”.

Instead of using your account, pull it all out in cash. Divide it up into envelopes marked “tithe”, “utilies”, “gas”, “groceries”, “mortgage/rent”, etc. To be honest, our checking account allows us free cashier checks, so we paid all our bills that way. This way, it was obvious what we had left.

I’d encourage looking into working with a good financial planner. Most churches have resources like “Good Sense” which are really great!

Keep tithing. It’s not about us (even though it’s really tough when ends aren’t meeting) but it’s about God. He’s really just letting us keep 90% of it.

If they want more practical resources, Anne, you can send them my email address. Brian, my husband, is a financial planner and can help anyone get their hands on resources free of cost.

Like I said, we’ve been there (and are still feeling aftershocks from our last time) and really have a heart for people who struggle in this area.

i believe that tithing is a commandment, not an option. so it’s something you have to do regardless of circumstances. God doesn’t need our money, but needs our obedience.

and it’s important to remember that we’re not giving our tithe to the “church” so the staff can have cool gadgets and hip clothes. we’re giving it to God. it’s His all ready, we’re just giving it back to Him.

Jesus never taught us to tithe. Shame on the church that will take your money and abuse it in such a profane way, while you can’t pay your bills. Jesus did teach us to give, but not to tithe. I say don’t worry about it. Take care of your bills. There will come a time when you will have more to give, but when that time comes, I would take another look at what your church would do with the money, vs. other ways that it may be put to better use.

I can sense the anxiety you are feeling. There is something naturally wrong with the tithe concept but you can’t quite put your finger on it. I would rather lose my salary and church building than to put such a burden on you. Keep the money, feed your family, pay your debts. God isn’t going to hit you over the head if you don’t tithe. The burden should be on me and the believers in the congregation. We say we care for the poor and can’t even help our own. If the church truly “loved one another” you never would have had to ask the question. The question just reveals the sad financial state we as believers are in because we violate basic financial principles and are in bondage ourselves. For me it’s hard to give to a building while my friend is going hungry.

As far as testing God goes, can’t you just use the wet towel/dry ground/dry towel/wet ground method and get more consistent results? (grin)
Seaton! You heretic you! Oh wait, sorry wrong word. You communist you! (grin)
Oh, and for all you New Testament Law Enforcement Agents, where are all the gouged out eyeball and cut off hand obedient Christians attending church these days? I can’t seem to locate these Red Letter obedient ones anywhere…(grin)
Zelig, y’all can’t put up or shut up. He is properly anonymous. Don’t y’all feel better now? (grin)
Anne Jackson, are they not paying you guys enough at LC? Do I have to do some more email smacking around over there? Cause I will! Just ask Cindy Beall! (grin)

This is not my money. I know I worked for it but it isn’t mine. It is the Lord. So when I tithe, I am giving back 10% of what’s already His. But I am desperate to hear if He needs me to do something with the other 90% because that 90% is not mine either but his.

In everything, the Lord is my inheritance and my portion. Especially money. Especially time.

He promised me. It is in His word.

If He needed me to take my paycheck and give it to somebody else, then in essence, I am simply running His money to somebody who might need it. But because He is my portion, He will provide for what I need at the right exact time.

Why should I ever worry about what tomorrow will bring. Why should I ever worry about bills being due? God knows what I owe and He knows my desire to be a good steward and pay my bills. God is my shelter (says so in the Bible). God will provide (says so in the Bible).

Hi all..I quit tithing, after living such a guilt ridden mindset for so long. My time is given to the body, to whomever. I am in incredible debt from my non Christian years. When we go to shake the person’s hand in church, spend more time with them. It is so surprising the people who need the most help are sitting next to us. I will thith someday

I think that tithing is a heart issue. You can go right back to Genesis and see this in the story of Cain and Abel. God accepted e Abel’s sacrifice because he gave the best of what he had. He gave sacrificially “off the top,” if you will. That’s what God wants from us. 10% is a guide and a good goal.

I think when we tithe, if we’re giving to our local church or somewhere else, we should consider it as something we’re giving back to God and no one else. Then, we can avoid judging how the church leaders choose to spend their money. It’s their choice how they spend, and we don’t know everything about how they acquire what they have (it may have been given to them or saved for a very long time, etc.).

When we tithe, I believe it’s for our benefit. I think God set it up to help us to see where our faith lies and Who we believe in. Are we trusting God or money? I think a balanced view is needed. If we are in debt, God doesn’t want that either. Talk to God, get out of debt, and start working toward the goal of 10%. Talk to God, be sure of your heart on the matter. Start at 5% and commit to that. Get finances in order, and start adding 1% until you reach the goal. I think God honors that if your heart is in the right place. Be asking Him to provide for what you need, and don’t be jealous of others or compare your life to others. There’s always somebody who has more and somebody who has less. Ask God for wisdom in managing your finances wisely, if another source of income needs to be obtained, or if there are other creative ideas He might give you to earn money or obtain the things you need in life. Again, if you have the goal in mind of eventually reaching the 10% mark, I think that honors God.

First of all, this is a GREAT question and I admire you for being brave enough to ask it. Far too many people are not willing to ask this and feel that God will be upset with them for asking such a question. I was in full time ministry for several years and our emergency fund was wiped out in getting out of a horrible ministry situation. We incurred debt, medical bills and so forth. We did not have magical checks show up even though we tithed, but we did have magical bills appear almost every week (yes, unexpected bills that we were not aware of). My wife did some research and came across this site: http://Shouldthechurchteachtithing.com. I am not going to tell you what to do or even give the “churchy” spin of just trust God and smile while it feels like you are on the Titanic. I really feel for you and understand what you are going through. This is a personal decision that you get to make. Just remember that God’s love for you is not dependent upon your actions, it is dependent upon His grace.

i’m so glad that john said this:

“Just remember that God’s love for you is not dependent upon your actions, it is dependent upon His grace.”

hallelujah …

Dear Anonymous,
It’s sounds as though you are in need of more than advice and we would love to help you.

I have a garage full of things that we were
considering donating but instead I think I
would rather have a garage sale for you and your family to help you through this time.

Anyone else who’d like to donate items is more than welcome.
When I go through times of need (physical, spiritual or material) God does provide- sometimes in the most mysterious ways but mostly through my loving Christian brothers and sisters.
Let me know how you feel about this and if you’d like to stay anonymous that is just fine - we’ll figure out the details later. I can have the sale the weekend of May 17th.
Also I have four children of various ages 3 girls and a boy and if you would like to come look through any clothes or any of the items before the sale you are certainly most welcome.
I live in Midwest City,OK.
Love,
Your sister in Christ Jesus
Shauna

It’s hard bring in a situation like this, I know I’ve been there. My dad always says he thinks it is a good idea that people know what it is like to be hungry. he means very hungry, the kind of hungry where you’ve not eaten in three days and you’re not even sure when the next meal will come from, he is right I know I’ve been there before as well.

My point is this: I know God is my provider - even when I have not been faithful, He is. I’ve struggled in tithing here and there and yes we should support our local church but I also found myself tithing into areas that seems more reflective of the great commission if my church was lacking.

I believe the heart is the issue that God wants to see our love for his kingdom if we seek that He will always bless us if our hearts and actions line up. But sometime it seems like we do it all right and still… patients is needed.