FlowerDust.net

Anne,

I have heard my wife says stuff like the “comparison” thing.

BTW, you do think about boobies way too much

or my third option - get angry at said female because she’s in public dressed the way she is. I won’t say anything to her, but inside I’m not happy, esp. if my hubs is with me.

I do think we girls tend to dress to show off what we think are our best parts, not only for the guy, but for the comparison game. spot on post.

…part of my comment was deleted. Add this next part right after “as if we have no control”

“However it’s extremely important that all of remember that God created us to live in community and to realize that what fully took place when Adam and Eve came to the realization of their bodies after Eve ate the apple. The truth is that what you do, effects others. It sucks, but it’s reality and it’s our responsibility to care about ourselves and about our brother’s and sister’s Christ enough to not want to hinder their walk”

Funny. My husband and I were just talking about this in the morning. I was saying that I think women tend to care more about what other women are thinking about them sometimes, instead of men. It’s like we want women to be jealous of us, and then we feel more beautiful. Sometimes even moreso than when a guy checks us out.

Personally, I’m a huge advocate of modesty. And I think women should be respectful of other women and men. I also think men can be immodest and flashy. Modesty is not just sexually-related.

I try to focus on dressing to please God and not focusing so much on it, rather than dressing to make other women jealous and raise my status quo or make other men stumble.

But yeah, I’m sure every woman struggles with comparison. Men do as well. My husband’s admitted to comparing himself to other men’s body types/style/and yes, personality.

We’re insecure. :o( We just need to focus more on Christ and find our security in eternity, not earth. :o)

Anyway, now that I’ve ranted in every direction, great post!

I totally agree, Anne! I posted about comparing last week because its so true! I think we too have to keep our guard up! I love the way you expressed the whole comparison game! :)

three posts on boobies? LOL! I think it’s so cool. We are starting a series on what it means to be a godly guy / godly girl with our teens. Maybe i should share the boobie thoughts…any other thougts on what a godly chick looks like?

I’m with Godzgal! I’m not petite either, but thank goodness I have hieght! I’m a t shirt and jeans wearer too.I spend alot of time playing the comparison game too, but we are gonna have to get over that. I don’t think it’s someone else’s responsibilty to make us feel secure.

But when we’re with the men!! That’s a whole different topic!

Anne,
May I suggest a topic for “Boobies 4″?

How about nursing babies? Some might feel cheated that their friends get gallon size “baba’s” (the name my kids give bottles), and they only get 1/2 gallon or pint-size. Infant-envy can be so harmful. And, then those poor kids that are bottled-fed could be really confused about why their friends are connected to their maternal units.

Ha! Gotta have some fun with this (hmmm, that could be a topic too… oh my!).

This has been a great blog thread - love the honest, straight-forward approach to holiness. Very refreshing! Thanks Anne!

I think the gals (wife/daughters) in my life do this too - and it creates a self esteem issue. if only I could wear that, be that thin, look that good in that bathing suit etc…Even going to the store sometimes to shop with my spouse can be discouraging because inevitably she or I will see something that might be a nice outfit - only to find out it really only works for swimsuit models and the size 2 mannequin in the store. Its not just boobies - its the whole package. And our culture teaches us image is everything and there is a certain image that is marketed to us.

Guys do this slightly different. Yeah - if I see a guy thats cut with cannons coming out of his sleeves - I get a little envious and wish I wasnt a fat pig in my late 40’s. If I see a guy like pete with cool hair - I wonder if I dyed mine if I could pull off the look even though I have him by a good 50lbs. When I see a cool shirt from buckle on a guy - I want one - only to find out they dont make clothes for fat guys.

But men also play the compare game in other ways. A guy has a truck with 4WD - and I wish I had one. A neighbor mows the lawn with a John Deer Tractor and I am jealous that I only have a 5 year old push mower that barely starts. I see a guy with an iPhone and my Samsung trace looks like crap. I see the Swerve blog redesign and it makes me feel like my skills are caveman like. I see a pastor with a big church and think what I do doesnt matter.

I dont think those guys have the responsibility not to have that stuff - or not let me see it - or not do what they do. I still contend the problem is mine - not theirs. When I am content with Christ and who he made me - and who I am becoming in him - seeing their cool toys and their Abercrombie and Fitch bodies and their mega-churches wont matter.

And when I take every thought captive to him then when I see a woman I can very quickly move past the fact that she has boobies - well covered or not - and move on to the fact she is human, created by God, has value and worth, and I am not to mentally fondle her and commit adultery with her in my mind. When I see a pastor with a Mega-church I can see him as a man used by God in a way thats different from me - but I am still used by God.

If you take the tack that some people are taking - that the woman with the boobies has the responsibility to cover them according to an arbitrary standard of decency to not cause someone to stumble - then we need to define her makeup - her weight - her hairstyle, how tight her pants can be - how long they can be - should she wear a dress etc. Is a one piece more decent than a two piece…One shouldn’t have a nice home because that makes people in their church jealous…

this can become a slippery slope.

Its a very fun discussion though.

Thanks, Douglas.

Hopefully in all these conversations we will inspire each other in ways we might have never thought…

for those that instinctively think one way to consider another someone else’s story as they continue on their journeys!

I read a list once that was someone’s ideas of how to live as a global Christian. One of the points on the list was - refuse to keep up with the latest styles of clothing. His point was when there are so many without how dare we discard/spend for fashion reasons. Good idea, hard to practice. I think this issue of modesty is not just one of covering up but one of what our goal in dressing is. Are we trying to draw the attention of others? Well, yes.
The comparison game women play is a symptom of our desire to be good enough, pretty enough, lovable. As Christians we should be getting that acceptance from the One True Source of Love - Jesus Christ. But we are not always good at that. I am not good at that.
When we have these high standards of modesty how do we keep from judging others as not as holy as me when they don’t meet our standard?

I am so completely guilty of the comparison thing that it makes me sick to my stomach to think about it. I can’t blame the girl in the tight shirt, though - only myself.

And on another note - a whole other boobie subject… This may have been addresses in comments on another post or something but I could have missed it. What about a nursing boobie? The boobie that’s peaking out from a blanket and an infant at the mall? I have some fairly strong thoughts on this but am interested in what others think - is it a different situation? Is it still a sexual body part then? What ’should’ be done with that particular boobie? I would blog about this but your blog has been inspiring way too many of my posts lately and dang it, I need to get my own ideas ;)

@ wendy…

i agree with what you’re saying about judgment and modesty. i have a ‘modest is hottest’ t-shirt that i used to wear a bit more often than i do now. i think sometimes modesty has been something that a certain pharisaical part of me has used to compare myself to others. ‘at least i’m not dressed like that, or carrying myself that way around guys, etc…’ my gut reaction to other women is sometimes, ’seriously? you went out in that?’ it’s something less than love.

though there’s also a sort of ‘big sister’ desire to see women i care about treating themselves as valuable, as daughters of royalty… i think i tend more toward the sympathetic when it’s girls much younger than me and struggle more with judgment when it’s women closer to my age. you know, competition. :)

i guess there’s sort of a tension. i never know how to deal with it.

i struggle with comparisons with regard to how i see myself, too, but it’s attached more to stuff i wouldn’t identify as ‘modesty indicators’–hair, facial features, shape that you’d be able to tell even covered up, is she more popular with the guys, etc. it’s especially true if the object of my comparisons is ‘attached’. (i’m not. not that i’m advertising. :) someone might be dressed modestly (by my personal standards, anyway), but i’m still thinking that some outward characteristic is the reason why life is going a particular way for her and not for me.

my two cents. :)

@moviepastor

But does the fact that there is no “hard and fast rule” give someone the right to ignore God’s commands?

Mike

Anne, I’m so glad you posted this. The measuring stick — is alive and well. Sometimes the cleavage is the end all too, as in “well, I’m not a size 2 but my boobs are bigger than yours” even among Christian women. We use that as a scape goat to not deal with the other issues, the less superficial issues related to self-image, self-esteem, and self-worth. There is a girls’ group bible study that meets at my house on Thursday and we are going through Sex God by Rob Bell. I mentioned it last week, but I’m totally bringing this conversation up again this Thursday!

I have to type this. I haven’t even read the other comments yet. I just have to do this because this exact thing JUST happened to me on Sunday. I learned quite a lesson too. Here’s the short version…
Place: 9 year old boy’s b-day party (my husband’s cousin’s son)
Where: his pool in his backyard
What: woman in skank-ho black bikini, built like Madonna (no joke), 6 pack abs of steel, butt you could bounce a quarter off of, thighs that did NOT touch when she walked, you get the picture.

I was so jealous I wouldn’t even look at her beyond my first impression and I refused to smile and say “hi”. Sickening, I know.

I later found out she is infertile. Has adopted all 4 of her children.

Inside I became immediately grateful for my stretch marks, saggy boobies, and wide hips. I would rather look like me and have been blessed with pregnancy after pregnancy than look like her and not had that opportunity. Anyway, my lesson learned, but what is a skantilly clad grown woman doing dressed like Jessica Simpson was in that one video at a 9 year old boy’s birthday party??

Sorry for the book.

Heidi

gee and i thought it was all about the shoes man, the shoes

i’m so old i woulda never thought a chick looked at another chick’s - well, how do i say it? parts, that’s it, parts

It does seem pretty petty, but I’m not sure how to help people with that. I just want to say, get over it. I’m more curious as to why people’s view of themselves is so fragile that we have to have these discussions.

I just caught up (thank you grad school for keeping me so far behind on the blogsphere) on the two blogs on breasts that you wrote, Anne, and I have to say my heart is utterly broken at the moment. I’ve having fits of emotions. There are parts of me that want to scream, cry, write, pray, talk, and pontificate. I totally hear the argument that, in essence, loving our brothers means to be modest. Yup, gotcha. And I hear the argument that women judge and compare and must stop. Amen. I used to think something was utterly wrong with me because I compared out of selfish vain and conceit.

But, here’s where I get lost after all my reading and thinking.

1) Why are people getting angry and attacking on Part 1 that the negative thoughts are being expressed? Does this issue change the collective “you’s” view on salvation? I hope not. If so, wow, I’m sorry. Honestly, I am. It doesn’t mine, at least. It’s a post-modern grey area, for sure, in my book. So if someone is offering an alternative experience, especially when they are in the minority, it’s awesome to converse, not blame or talk down to.

2) I don’t understand why Christians are so compelled to talk about issues that are not the actual issues, but rather the symptoms of issues. We talk about how men struggle with their visual minds because of how women dress. I get that. We talk about how women are catty about how the other woman looks. Yup. But we don’t talk about how by labeling breasts any of the aforementioned names, or by comparing breasts, butts or legs, we are in fact still modeling the very objectification of women (and men, for that matter) that the rest of society does.

If we’re supposed to be fighting the world, does modesty actually cut it? It seems like a band-aid that other cultures have tried for years, and yet I’m pretty sure it’s still just objectifying bodies of women, no matter how un-appealing or unattractive to some it might be.

Our issue, as a culture, and certainly as a Christian subculture is that I don’t see us really addressing the issues, we’re just addressing the symptoms of our issues. And that is not transforming anything.

I’d love to hear people’s thoughts. Maybe I’ve gone coo-coo out in LA in the smog since I got to seminary. Sorry for seeminly hi-jacking this blog with my comment! (And thanks for the freedom to do so!) ;)